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Would shifting clone sales from NPC to open market fix PC?

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Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 2865	Posted - 2014.04.03 19:53:00 - [1] - Quote A couple of points before I get into it: 1) The two biggest problems with PC 1.0 are Passive ISK generation, and that Location Dose Not Matter. This proposal only addresses the first issue. I have addressed the location issue elsewhere. 2) This solution is intended to be a better stop-gap than what we have currently, to hold us over until more complex systems are implemented such as PVE and EVE/DUST manufacturing integration. It does rely on a DUST Player to Player market, but we are supposed to be getting that soon anyway. The Premise: 1) There is an ISK per day cost to keeping clones alive. That cost starts to rise exponentially as you exceed the clone capacity of your district. To avoid paying the higher clone maintenance costs you must either sell or destroy your excess clones. 2) Clones are bought and sold on the open market. Genolution is out of the business. If you have more clones than you can afford, sell them for a price that people are willing to pay. If you donGÇÖt have clones (or enough clones) to attack a district, buy them on the market. 3) Clones must be transported to a station before they can be placed on the market. Transport is done in EVE and would be arranged through a type of currier contract. An orbital structure would be needed above each district, similar to a POCO, where clones could be picked up or dropped off. Self Regulating System: The income from districts would be based on clone sales on an open Player to Player market, so value would be dependent on supply and demand. High Demand would lead to a high return on clone sales, but the demand would only be high when there are a lot of Planetary Conquest matches happening. High Supply would lead to low returns on clone sales as differnt Corps try to undercut each other to sell to the few people who are buying. (They might not all sell, and some might even have to be destroyed.) High Supply will happen when there are not very many Planetary Conquest battles. So, if there are a lot of PC matches, and a lot of clones are dying, then owning districts will be highly profitable. If no one is fighting, then districts will not be profitable. However, if no one if fighting the cost of clones will drop to the point where it is very easy for new Corporations to get into Planetary Conquest. Of course the most profit can be made when two other Corps are fighting each other and your Corp is selling clones to both sides. Welcome to New Eden. So, anyone see any obvious flaws in this proposal? Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 2865	Posted - 2014.04.03 22:31:00 - [2] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Sounds much like the clone system I proposed in other threads, some of which you responded to. Original Post: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2013941#post2013941 Graphical Representation: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2018130#post2018130 Yeah, I got the idea when reading your original post. I was thinking that your suggestion seemed a bit complex for quick implementation. Then it occurred to me we could simplify it greatly by just applying the idea to clones to start with. I would like to see some of the other stuff you suggested, but they have more dependencies and could not be implemented until industry is developed further. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 2867	Posted - 2014.04.05 14:32:00 - [3] - Quote I added a link in the original post linking to my solution to making Location matter, based on the snippets of info we got regarding PC 2.0. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 2918	Posted - 2014.04.11 15:15:00 - [4] - Quote Thank you Arkena Wyrnspire. You have pointed out some serious flaws in my original proposal. Let me see if I can address those. Let us add the ability to sell clones to an NPC Corp for biomass. Have the proceeds from biomass sales set so that biomassing 80 clones will return enough ISK to pay for the clone maintenance of 450 clones at within capacity maintenance costs. This would allow districts to be self sufficient, and Production Facilities could even produce a very small profit through biomassing, if the clones are not sold on the open market for large profits. Clone maintenance costs should be quite low so that even with the exponential cost of exceeding the capacity of your district when saving up clones to sell on the open market, the cost of feeding the extra clones would not eat up a significant portion of the profits from selling them. Provided you donGÇÖt exceed the capacity of the district by too much. Going 100 clones over capacity should be quite manageable, but by the time you get 200 over capacity it should start to become a major expense. So that takes care of clones not being a liability, but it does not necessarily provide enough incentive for Corporations to want to hold districts. If there are Corporations buying Clone packs, it could be very profitable, but if there is more supply than demand you might not be able to sell your clones profitably. I am starting to think Pokey Dravon had it right, that there needs to be other opportunities for active ISK generation. PVE, and the ability to tax your players as they collect bounties on Rouge Drones in your district is obviously the best answer, but we donGÇÖt know when PVE will be ready. What are some other forms of active ISK generation that could be implemented without a large programming effort? Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 2918	Posted - 2014.04.11 19:53:00 - [5] - Quote So... no clone maintenance cost. Have the ability to set a district to either sell excess clones to an NPC Corp for Biomas, or sell them on the open market. Have the biomass price fairly low (not the great ISK generator that we have today). If selling on the open market, be able to set market rules to sell at a specified price, but have the clones die if not purchased within 30 days. (Potentially high profits, but risk of no profit.) Have the selling Corp listed so the purchaser can use source as well as price to make their purchasing decision. Have Production Facilities produce one type of consumable mercenary equipment at a time, with the ability to chance what it is producing at any time. The rate of production will depend on the complexity of the item. (Which will relate to value.) So a Production facility might produce 100 Proto Suits per day, or it might produce 26 Assault Dropships per day. Materials would be used in the manufacturing process, which could be purchased from the EVE market, or gotten in other ways. Have Research Facilities able to reduce the material cost or increase the production rate of up to 5 Production Facilities owned by the same Corp on the same planet. Have Storage Facilities changed to a mining operation similar to PI in EVE. This could be an alternate source of the materials needed in the manufacturing process, or they could be sold on the open market. Have anyone with the Planetary Management Officer role able to change the settings on these facilities. Moving to & from the Market: Items going to market or coming from the market are picked up or dropped off at the POCO. A Currier contract is automatically generated with an NPC courier by default, but the customer can opt to make it a public or private contract. The NPC courier will make its run during the next Down Time. Public and Private courier contracts may be faster or slower as it is player dependent. The customer will be charged a significant fee for shipping with the NPC courier. On private contracts the customer can set the pay and the collateral. A pilot can set destination, pay, and size criteria and take all contracts they qualify for going to that destination. UI needs to be able to handle grouping of many small orders so that it does not become a repetitive and frustrating task. On Private and Public contracts, if the ship gets blown up, or the items are not delivered on time, then the customer gets the collateral that was put up by the pilot when he/she accepted the contract. This system sets up a nice cottage industry for new pilots with an Industrial ship doing multiple short runs. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 2918	Posted - 2014.04.11 20:40:00 - [6] - Quote Actually having mining and production in DUST be at the Corp level, using District Infrastructure, is probably a good way to go about it. Then a Corp will only need a few Spreadsheet Jockeys, and the rest of the Corp can ignore the complexity and just go about their job of shooting people in the face. It would also mean that ex EVE players who have bad hand/eye coordination might still find a place in top PC Corps if they are interested in managing the infrastructure. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 2920	Posted - 2014.04.12 18:17:00 - [7] - Quote Yeah the more we talk about this the more I spiral back to Pokey DravonGÇÖs proposal. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.

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